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Majjhima Nikāya 72 Middle Discourses 72
Aggivacchasutta With Vacchagotta on Fire
Evaṁ me sutaṁ—Thus I heard:So I have heard.
ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme. On one occasion the Blessed One was living at Sāvatthi in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park.At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.
Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Then Vacchagotta the Wanderer went to the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him.Then the wanderer Vacchagotta went up to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.
Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When the courteous and amiable talk was finished, he sat down at one side. When he had done so, he said to the Blessed One:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How is it, Master Gotama: ‘the world is eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—[^1]“Worthy Gotama, is this your view: ‘The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the world is eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How then, Master Gotama: ‘the world is not eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘The cosmos is not eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the world is not eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘antavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How is it, Master Gotama: ‘the world is finite, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘The cosmos is finite. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘antavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the world is finite, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘anantavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How then, Master Gotama: ‘the world is infinite, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘The cosmos is infinite. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘anantavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the world is infinite, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How is it, Master Gotama: ‘the soul is the same as the body, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘The soul and the body are one and the same. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the soul is the same as the body, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How then, Master Gotama: ‘the soul is one and the body another, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘The soul is one thing, the body another. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘the soul is one and the body another, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How is it, Master Gotama: ‘after death a Tathāgata is,[^2] only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘A realized one still exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘after death a Tathāgata is, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How then, Master Gotama: ‘after death a Tathāgata is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘A realized one no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘after death a Tathāgata is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How is it, Master Gotama: ‘after death a Tathāgata both is and is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘after death a Tathāgata both is and is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti—“How then, Master Gotama: ‘after death a Tathāgata neither is nor is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong’—“Then is this your view: ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo”ti? does Master Gotama hold this view?”
“Na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha:“That’s not my view, Vaccha.”
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti. ‘after death a Tathāgata neither is nor is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.’”
“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How is it, Master Gotama: the world is eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong—“Worthy Gotama, when asked these ten questions, you say: ‘That’s not my view.’
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the world is eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How then, Master Gotama: the world is not eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the world is not eternal, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, antavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How is it, Master Gotama: the world is finite, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
antavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the world is finite, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, anantavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How then, Master Gotama: the world is infinite, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
anantavā loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the world is infinite, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How is it, Master Gotama: the soul is the same as the body, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the soul is the same as the body, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How then, Master Gotama: the soul is one and the body another, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. the soul is one and the body another, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How is it, Master Gotama: after death a Tathāgata is, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. after death a Tathāgata is, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How then, Master Gotama: after death a Tathāgata is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. after death a Tathāgata is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How is it, Master Gotama: after death a Tathāgata both is and is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. after death a Tathāgata both is and is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññanti—‘When I asked: “How then, Master Gotama: after death a Tathāgata neither is nor is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong—
evaṁdiṭṭhi bhavaṁ gotamo’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho ahaṁ, vaccha, evaṁdiṭṭhi—does Master Gotama hold this view?” you, being asked thus, said: “I do not hold that view, Vaccha—
neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti vadesi. after death a Tathāgata neither is nor is not, only this is true and everything else is wrong.”
Kiṁ pana bho gotamo ādīnavaṁ sampassamāno evaṁ imāni sabbaso diṭṭhigatāni anupagato”ti? But what danger does Master Gotama see, that he is thus altogether disassociated from all these fields of view?”Seeing what drawback do you avoid all these convictions?”
“‘Sassato loko’ti kho, vaccha, diṭṭhigatametaṁ diṭṭhigahanaṁ diṭṭhikantāro diṭṭhivisūkaṁ diṭṭhivipphanditaṁ diṭṭhisaṁyojanaṁ sadukkhaṁ savighātaṁ saupāyāsaṁ sapariḷāhaṁ, na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati. ‘Vaccha, the view “the world is eternal” is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views; it is accompanied by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to dispassion, to fading away, to cessation, to peace, to direct-knowledge, to full-enlightenment, to Nibbāna.“Each of these ten convictions is the thicket of views, the desert of views, the twist of views, the dodge of views, the fetter of views. They’re beset with suffering, distress, anguish, and fever. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment.
‘Asassato loko’ti kho, vaccha …pe… The view “the world is not eternal” …
‘antavā loko’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “the world is finite” …
‘anantavā loko’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “the world is infinite” …
‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “the soul is the same as the body” …
‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “the soul is one and the body another” …
‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “after death a Tathāgata is” …
‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “after death a Tathāgata is not” …
‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, vaccha …pe… the view “after death a Tathāgata both is and is not” …
‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, vaccha, diṭṭhigatametaṁ diṭṭhigahanaṁ diṭṭhikantāro diṭṭhivisūkaṁ diṭṭhivipphanditaṁ diṭṭhisaṁyojanaṁ sadukkhaṁ savighātaṁ saupāyāsaṁ sapariḷāhaṁ, na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati. … and the view “after death a Tathāgata neither is nor is not” is a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views; it is accompanied by suffering, by vexation, by despair, and by fever, and it does not lead to dispassion, to fading away, to cessation, to peace, to direct-knowledge, to full-enlightenment, to Nibbāna.
Imaṁ kho ahaṁ, vaccha, ādīnavaṁ sampassamāno evaṁ imāni sabbaso diṭṭhigatāni anupagato”ti. It is seeing this danger, Vaccha, that I am thus altogether disassociated from all these fields of view.”Seeing this drawback I avoid all these convictions.”
“Atthi pana bhoto gotamassa kiñci diṭṭhigatan”ti? “But does Master Gotama have any view of his own?”“But does the worthy Gotama have any convictions at all?”
“Diṭṭhigatanti kho, vaccha, apanītametaṁ tathāgatassa. “‘View’, Vaccha, is something a Tathāgata has done away with.“A realized one has done away with convictions.
Diṭṭhañhetaṁ, vaccha, tathāgatena: For a Tathāgata has seen this:For a realized one has seen:
‘iti rūpaṁ, iti rūpassa samudayo, iti rūpassa atthaṅgamo; ‘such is form, such its origin, such its disappearance;‘Such is form, such is the origin of form, such is the disappearance of form.
iti vedanā, iti vedanāya samudayo, iti vedanāya atthaṅgamo; such is feeling, such its origin, such its disappearance;Such is feeling, such is the origin of feeling, such is the disappearance of feeling.
iti saññā, iti saññāya samudayo, iti saññāya atthaṅgamo; such is perception, such its origin, such its disappearance;Such is perception, such is the origin of perception, such is the disappearance of perception.
iti saṅkhārā, iti saṅkhārānaṁ samudayo, iti saṅkhārānaṁ atthaṅgamo; such are formations, such their origin, such their disappearance;Such are choices, such is the origin of choices, such is the disappearance of choices.
iti viññāṇaṁ, iti viññāṇassa samudayo, iti viññāṇassa atthaṅgamo’ti. such is consciousness, such its origin, such its disappearance.’Such is consciousness, such is the origin of consciousness, such is the disappearance of consciousness.’
Tasmā tathāgato sabbamaññitānaṁ sabbamathitānaṁ sabbaahaṅkāramamaṅkāramānānusayānaṁ khayā virāgā nirodhā cāgā paṭinissaggā anupādā vimuttoti vadāmī”ti. Therefore I say that a Tathāgata is liberated through the exhaustion, fading away, cessation, giving up, and relinquishment of all conceiving, all excogitation, all I-making, mine-making, and the underlying tendency to conceit, without clinging.”That’s why a Realized One is freed by not grasping with the ending, fading away, cessation, giving up, and letting go of all conceiving, all churning, and all I-making, mine-making, or underlying tendency to conceit, I say.”
“Evaṁ vimuttacitto pana, bho gotama, bhikkhu kuhiṁ upapajjatī”ti? “When a bhikkhu’s mind is liberated thus, Master Gotama, where does he reappear?”“But worthy Gotama, when a mendicant’s mind is freed like this, where are they reborn?”
“Upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upeti”. “‘Reappears’ does not apply, Vaccha.”“‘They’re reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Tena hi, bho gotama, na upapajjatī”ti? “Then he does not reappear, Master Gotama?”“Well then, are they not reborn?”
“Na upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upeti”. “‘Does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”“‘They’re not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Tena hi, bho gotama, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatī”ti? “Then he both reappears and does not reappear, Master Gotama?”“Well then, are they both reborn and not reborn?”
“Upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upeti”. “‘Both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”“‘They’re both reborn and not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“Tena hi, bho gotama, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatī”ti? “Then he neither reappears nor does not reappear, Master Gotama?”“Well then, are they neither reborn nor not reborn?”
“Neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upeti”. “‘Neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”“‘They’re neither reborn nor not reborn’ doesn’t apply, Vaccha.”
“‘Evaṁ vimuttacitto pana, bho gotama, bhikkhu kuhiṁ upapajjatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upetī’ti vadesi. ‘“When a bhikkhu’s mind is liberated thus, Master Gotama, where does he reappear?”—being asked thus, you said: “‘Reappears’ does not apply, Vaccha.”“Worthy Gotama, when asked all these questions, you say: ‘It doesn’t apply.’
‘Tena hi, bho gotama, na upapajjatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upetī’ti vadesi. “Then he does not reappear, Master Gotama?”—being asked thus, you said: “‘Does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
‘Tena hi, bho gotama, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upetī’ti vadesi. “Then he both reappears and does not reappear, Master Gotama?”—being asked thus, you said: “‘Both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
‘Tena hi, bho gotama, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti kho, vaccha, na upetī’ti vadesi. “Then he neither reappears nor does not reappear, Master Gotama?”—being asked thus, you said: “‘Neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply, Vaccha.”
Etthāhaṁ, bho gotama, aññāṇamāpādiṁ, ettha sammohamāpādiṁ. Here, Master Gotama, I have fallen into unknowing, I have fallen into confusion,I fail to understand this point, worthy Gotama; I’ve fallen into confusion.
Yāpi me esā bhoto gotamassa purimena kathāsallāpena ahu pasādamattā sāpi me etarahi antarahitā”ti. and whatever small measure of confidence I had through Master Gotama’s earlier conversation has now vanished.”[^3]And I’ve now lost even the degree of clarity I had from previous discussions with the worthy Gotama.”
“Alañhi te, vaccha, aññāṇāya, alaṁ sammohāya. “Enough of your unknowing, Vaccha, enough of your confusion.“No wonder you don’t understand, Vaccha, no wonder you’re confused.
Gambhīro hāyaṁ, vaccha, dhammo duddaso duranubodho santo paṇīto atakkāvacaro nipuṇo paṇḍitavedanīyo. This Dhamma is profound, hard to see, hard to discover, peaceful, sublime, unattainable by mere reasoning, subtle, to be experienced by the wise.For this principle is deep, hard to see, hard to understand, peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute.
So tayā dujjāno aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrayogena aññatrācariyakena. It is hard for you to know it since you hold a different view, favour a different acceptance, aspire to a different goal, undertake a different training, and follow a different teacher.It’s hard for you to understand, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination.
Tena hi, vaccha, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi; yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. So then, Vaccha, I shall question you about this in return; answer as you see fit.Well then, Vaccha, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, vaccha, What do you think, Vaccha,What do you think, Vaccha?
sace te purato aggi jaleyya, jāneyyāsi tvaṁ: if a fire were burning before you, would you know:Suppose a fire was burning in front of you. Would you know:
‘ayaṁ me purato aggi jalatī’”ti? ‘this fire is burning before me’?”‘This fire is burning in front of me’?”
“Sace me, bho gotama, purato aggi jaleyya, jāneyyāhaṁ: “If a fire were burning before me, Master Gotama, I would know:“Yes, I would, worthy Gotama.”
‘ayaṁ me purato aggi jalatī’”ti. ‘this fire is burning before me.’”
“Sace pana taṁ, vaccha, evaṁ puccheyya: “If someone were to ask you, Vaccha, thus:“But Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you:
‘yo te ayaṁ purato aggi jalati ayaṁ aggi kiṁ paṭicca jalatī’ti, evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, vaccha, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti? ‘This fire burning before you—what does it burn dependent on?’ Being asked thus, Vaccha, how would you answer?”‘This fire burning in front of you: what does it depend on to burn?’ How would you answer?”
“Sace maṁ, bho gotama, evaṁ puccheyya: “If I were asked thus, Master Gotama:
‘yo te ayaṁ purato aggi jalati ayaṁ aggi kiṁ paṭicca jalatī’ti, evaṁ puṭṭho ahaṁ, bho gotama, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ: ‘This fire burning before you—what does it burn dependent on?’ being asked thus, Master Gotama, I would answer thus:“I would answer like this:
‘yo me ayaṁ purato aggi jalati ayaṁ aggi tiṇakaṭṭhupādānaṁ paṭicca jalatī’”ti. ‘This fire burning before me burns dependent on grass and sticks as fuel.’”[^4]‘This fire burning in front of me burns in dependence on grass and logs as fuel.’”
“Sace te, vaccha, purato so aggi nibbāyeyya, jāneyyāsi tvaṁ: “If that fire before you were to go out, Vaccha, would you know:“Suppose that fire burning in front of you was extinguished. Would you know:
‘ayaṁ me purato aggi nibbuto’”ti? ‘this fire before me has gone out’?”‘This fire in front of me is quenched’?”
“Sace me, bho gotama, purato so aggi nibbāyeyya, jāneyyāhaṁ: “If that fire before me were to go out, Master Gotama, I would know:“Yes, I would, worthy Gotama.”
‘ayaṁ me purato aggi nibbuto’”ti. ‘this fire before me has gone out.’”
“Sace pana taṁ, vaccha, evaṁ puccheyya: “If someone were to ask you, Vaccha, thus:“But Vaccha, suppose they were to ask you:
‘yo te ayaṁ purato aggi nibbuto so aggi ito katamaṁ disaṁ gato—‘This fire before you that has gone out—which direction did it go from here:‘This fire in front of you that is quenched: in what direction did it go—
puratthimaṁ vā dakkhiṇaṁ vā pacchimaṁ vā uttaraṁ vā’ti, evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, vaccha, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti? east, south, west, or north?’ Being asked thus, Vaccha, how would you answer?”east, south, west, or north?’ How would you answer?”
“Na upeti, bho gotama, yañhi so, bho gotama, aggi tiṇakaṭṭhupādānaṁ paṭicca ajali tassa ca pariyādānā aññassa ca anupahārā anāhāro nibbutotveva saṅkhyaṁ gacchatī”ti. “That does not apply, Master Gotama. That fire burned dependent on grass and sticks as fuel, and with the exhaustion of that fuel, and no other being supplied, being without nutriment, it is reckoned as ‘gone out’.”“It doesn’t apply, worthy Gotama. The fire depended on grass and logs as fuel. When that runs out, and no more fuel is added, the fire is reckoned to have become quenched due to lack of fuel.”
“Evameva kho, vaccha, yena rūpena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ rūpaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. “So too, Vaccha, the form by which one describing a Tathāgata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with, no more subject to future arising.“In the same way, Vaccha, any form by which a realized one might be described has been given up, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
Rūpasaṅkhayavimutto kho, vaccha, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāḷho—The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of form, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom,A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of form. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. like the great ocean.like the ocean.
Upapajjatīti na upeti, na upapajjatīti na upeti, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti na upeti, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti na upeti. ‘Reappears’ does not apply, ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn nor not reborn’—none of these apply.
Yāya vedanāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya sā vedanā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. The feeling by which one describing a Tathāgata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with, no more subject to future arising.Any feeling …
Vedanāsaṅkhayavimutto kho, vaccha, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāḷho—The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of feeling, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom,
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. like the great ocean.
Upapajjatīti na upeti, na upapajjatīti na upeti, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti na upeti, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti na upeti. ‘Reappears’ does not apply, ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.
Yāya saññāya tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya sā saññā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. The perception by which one describing a Tathāgata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with, no more subject to future arising.perception …
Saññāsaṅkhayavimutto kho, vaccha, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāḷho—The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of perception, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom,
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. like the great ocean.
Upapajjatīti na upeti, na upapajjatīti na upeti, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti na upeti, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti na upeti. ‘Reappears’ does not apply, ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.
Yehi saṅkhārehi tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya te saṅkhārā tathāgatassa pahīnā ucchinnamūlā tālāvatthukatā anabhāvaṅkatā āyatiṁ anuppādadhammā. The formations by which one describing a Tathāgata might describe him have been abandoned by the Tathāgata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with, no more subject to future arising.choices …
Saṅkhārasaṅkhayavimutto kho, vaccha, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāḷho—The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of formations, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom,
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. like the great ocean.
Upapajjatīti na upeti, na upapajjatīti na upeti, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti na upeti, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti na upeti. ‘Reappears’ does not apply, ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.
Yena viññāṇena tathāgataṁ paññāpayamāno paññāpeyya taṁ viññāṇaṁ tathāgatassa pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ. The consciousness by which one describing a Tathāgata might describe him has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, done away with, no more subject to future arising.consciousness by which a realized one might be described has been given up, cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.
Viññāṇasaṅkhayavimutto kho, vaccha, tathāgato gambhīro appameyyo duppariyogāḷho—The Tathāgata is liberated from reckoning in terms of consciousness, Vaccha; he is profound, immeasurable, hard to fathom,A realized one is freed from reckoning in terms of consciousness. They’re deep, immeasurable, and hard to fathom,
seyyathāpi mahāsamuddo. like the great ocean.like the ocean.
Upapajjatīti na upeti, na upapajjatīti na upeti, upapajjati ca na ca upapajjatīti na upeti, neva upapajjati na na upapajjatīti na upetī”ti. ‘Reappears’ does not apply, ‘does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘both reappears and does not reappear’ does not apply, ‘neither reappears nor does not reappear’ does not apply.”‘They’re reborn’, ‘they’re not reborn’, ‘they’re both reborn and not reborn’, ‘they’re neither reborn nor not reborn’—none of these apply.”
Evaṁ vutte, vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: When this was said, Vacchagotta the Wanderer said to the Blessed One:When he said this, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Buddha:
“seyyathāpi, bho gotama, gāmassa vā nigamassa vā avidūre mahāsālarukkho. “Master Gotama, suppose there were a great sāla tree not far from a village or town.“Worthy Gotama, suppose there was a large sal tree not far from a town or village.
Tassa aniccatā sākhāpalāsā palujjeyyuṁ, tacapapaṭikā palujjeyyuṁ, pheggū palujjeyyuṁ; Through impermanence its branches and foliage would fall away, its bark would fall away, its softwood would fall away;And because it’s impermanent, its branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood would fall off.
so aparena samayena apagatasākhāpalāso apagatatacapapaṭiko apagataphegguko suddho assa, sāre patiṭṭhito; and on a later occasion, divested of branches and foliage, divested of bark, divested of softwood, it would be pure and stand established in heartwood.After some time it would be rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, pure, and consolidated in the core.
evameva bhoto gotamassa pāvacanaṁ apagatasākhāpalāsaṁ apagatatacapapaṭikaṁ apagatapheggukaṁ suddhaṁ, sāre patiṭṭhitaṁ. So too, Master Gotama’s teaching is divested of branches and foliage, divested of bark, divested of softwood, and it is pure and stands established in heartwood.In the same way, worthy Gotama’s dispensation is rid of branches and foliage, bark and shoots, and softwood, pure, and consolidated in the core.
Abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe… ‘Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent, Master Gotama! The Dhamma has been made clear in many ways by Master Gotama, as though he were righting the overthrown, revealing the hidden, showing the way to one who was lost, holding up a lamp in the darkness for those with eyesight to see forms. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, and to the Dhamma and to the Sangha. …Excellent, worthy Gotama! …
upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti. … From today let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone to him for refuge for life.”From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
Aggivacchasuttaṁ niṭṭhitaṁ dutiyaṁ.