sutta » sn » sn12 » Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.18

Timbarukasutta

With Timbaruka Timbaruka

Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati.
At Sāvatthī.
At Sāvatthı̄.

Atha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi.
Then the wanderer Timbaruka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him.
Then the wanderer Timbaruka approached the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:
When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:

“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“Well, Mister Gotama, are pleasure and pain made by oneself?”
“How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“Then are pleasure and pain made by another?”
“Then, Master Gotama, are pleasure and pain created by another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti?
“Well, are pleasure and pain made by both oneself and another?”
“How is it then, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created both by oneself and by another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“Then do pleasure and pain arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”
“Then, Master Gotama, have pleasure and pain arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti?
“Well, is there no such thing as pleasure and pain?”
“How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?”

Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;
“It’s not that there’s no such thing as pleasure and pain.
“It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka;

atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti.
Pleasure and pain are real.”
there is pleasure and pain.”

Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti?
“Then does Mister Gotama not know or see suffering?”
“Then is it that Master Gotama does not know and see pleasure and pain?”

Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.
“It’s not that I don’t know or see pleasure and pain.
“It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka.

Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;
I do know pleasure and pain,
I know pleasure and pain,

passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan”ti.
I do see pleasure and pain.”
I see pleasure and pain.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
“Mister Gotama, when asked these questions, you say ‘not so’.
“Whether you are asked: ‘How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?’

‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
or ‘Are they created by another? ’ or

‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
‘Are they created by both?’

‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
or ‘Are they created by neither?’ in each case you say: ‘Not so, Timbaruka.’

‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;
Yet you say that there is such a thing as pleasure and pain.
When you are asked: ‘How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?’ you say: ‘It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka;

atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.

‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.
‘It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka.

Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;
And you say that you do know pleasure and pain,
I know pleasure and pain,

passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.
and you do see pleasure and pain.
I see pleasure and pain.’

Ācikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ.
Sir, explain pleasure and pain to me!
Venerable sir, let the Blessed One explain pleasure and pain to me.

Desetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan”ti.
Teach me about pleasure and pain!”
Let the Blessed One teach me about pleasure and pain.”

“‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.
“Suppose that the feeling and the one who feels it are the same thing. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, pleasure and pain is made by oneself. I don’t say this.
“Timbaruka, [if one thinks,] ‘The feeling and the one who feels it are the same,’ [then one asserts] with reference to one existing from the beginning: ‘Pleasure and pain are created by oneself.’ I do not speak thus.

‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.
Suppose that the feeling is one thing and the one who feels it is another. Then for one stricken by feeling, pleasure and pain is made by another. I don’t say this.
But, Timbaruka, [if one thinks,] ‘The feeling is one, the one who feels it is another,’ [then one asserts]with reference to one stricken by feeling:‘Pleasure and pain are created by another.’ Neither do I speak thus.

Ete te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupagamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti:
Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way:
Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathāgata teaches the Dhamma by the middle:

‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā;
‘Ignorance is a condition for choices.
‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations [come to be];

saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ …pe…
Choices are a condition for consciousness. …
with volitional formations as condition, consciousness….

evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti.
That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.
Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.

Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho;
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease.
But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations;

saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho …pe…
When choices cease, consciousness ceases. …
with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness….

evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’”ti.
That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”
Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.’”

Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
When he said this, the wanderer Timbaruka said to the Buddha,
When this was said, the naked ascetic Timbaruka said to the Blessed One:

“abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe…
“Excellent, Mister Gotama! Excellent! …
“Magnificent, Master Gotama!…

esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.
I go for refuge to Mister Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha.
I go for refuge to Master Gotama, and to the Dhamma, and to the Bhikkhu Saṅgha.

Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.
From this day forth, may Mister Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
From today let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

Aṭṭhamaṁ.