sutta » sn » sn12 » Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.18

Timbarukasutta

Timbaruka With Timbaruka

Sāvatthiyaṁ viharati.
At Sāvatthı̄.
At Sāvatthī.

Atha kho timbaruko paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi.
Then the wanderer Timbaruka approached the Blessed One and exchanged greetings with him.
Then the wanderer Timbaruka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
When they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:

“Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?”
“Well, Mister Gotama, are pleasure and pain made by oneself?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“Then, Master Gotama, are pleasure and pain created by another?”
“Then are pleasure and pain made by another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhanti?
“How is it then, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created both by oneself and by another?”
“Well, are pleasure and pain made by both oneself and another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhanti?
“Then, Master Gotama, have pleasure and pain arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?”
“Then do pleasure and pain arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”

Mā hevaṁ, timbarukāti bhagavā avoca.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” the Blessed One said.
“Not so, Timbaruka,” said the Buddha.

Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhanti?
“How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?”
“Well, is there no such thing as pleasure and pain?”

Na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;
“It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka;
“It’s not that there’s no such thing as pleasure and pain.

atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhanti.
there is pleasure and pain.”
Pleasure and pain are real.”

Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatīti?
“Then is it that Master Gotama does not know and see pleasure and pain?”
“Then Mister Gotama doesn’t know nor see pleasure and pain.”

Na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.
“It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka.
“It’s not that I don’t know or see pleasure and pain.

Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;
I know pleasure and pain,
I do know pleasure and pain,

passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan”ti.
I see pleasure and pain.”
I do see pleasure and pain.”

“‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
“Whether you are asked: ‘How is it, Master Gotama: are pleasure and pain created by oneself?’
“Mister Gotama, when asked these questions, you say ‘not so’.

‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
or ‘Are they created by another? ’ or

‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
‘Are they created by both?’

‘Kiṁ pana, bho gotama, asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘mā hevaṁ, timbarukā’ti vadesi.
or ‘Are they created by neither?’ in each case you say: ‘Not so, Timbaruka.’

‘Kiṁ nu kho, bho gotama, natthi sukhadukkhan’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na kho, timbaruka, natthi sukhadukkhaṁ;
When you are asked: ‘How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no pleasure and pain?’ you say: ‘It is not that there is no pleasure and pain, Timbaruka;
Yet you say that there is such a thing as pleasure and pain.

atthi kho, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.

‘Tena hi bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāti, na passatī’ti iti puṭṭho samāno ‘na khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ na jānāmi, na passāmi.
‘It is not that I do not know and see pleasure and pain, Timbaruka.

Jānāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhaṁ;
I know pleasure and pain,
And you say that you do know pleasure and pain,

passāmi khvāhaṁ, timbaruka, sukhadukkhan’ti vadesi.
I see pleasure and pain.’
and you do see pleasure and pain.

Ācikkhatu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhaṁ.
Venerable sir, let the Blessed One explain pleasure and pain to me.
Sir, explain pleasure and pain to me!

Desetu ca me bhavaṁ gotamo sukhadukkhan”ti.
Let the Blessed One teach me about pleasure and pain.”
Teach me about pleasure and pain!”

“‘Sā vedanā, so vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, ādito sato ‘sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.
“Timbaruka, [if one thinks,] ‘The feeling and the one who feels it are the same,’ [then one asserts] with reference to one existing from the beginning: ‘Pleasure and pain are created by oneself.’ I do not speak thus.
“Suppose that the feeling and the one who feels it are the same thing. Then for one who has existed since the beginning, pleasure and pain is made by oneself. I don’t say this.

‘Aññā vedanā, añño vedayatī’ti kho, timbaruka, vedanābhitunnassa sato ‘paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhan’ti evampāhaṁ na vadāmi.
But, Timbaruka, [if one thinks,] ‘The feeling is one, the one who feels it is another,’ [then one asserts]with reference to one stricken by feeling:‘Pleasure and pain are created by another.’ Neither do I speak thus.
Suppose that the feeling is one thing and the one who feels it is another. Then for one stricken by feeling, pleasure and pain is made by another. I don’t say this.

Ete te, timbaruka, ubho ante anupagamma majjhena tathāgato dhammaṁ deseti:
Without veering towards either of these extremes, the Tathāgata teaches the Dhamma by the middle:
Avoiding these two extremes, the Realized One teaches by the middle way:

‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā;
‘With ignorance as condition, volitional formations [come to be];
‘Ignorance is a condition for choices.

saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ …pe…
with volitional formations as condition, consciousness….
Choices are a condition for consciousness. …

evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa samudayo hoti.
Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.
That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.

Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho;
But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance comes cessation of volitional formations;
When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease.

saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho …pe…
with the cessation of volitional formations, cessation of consciousness….
When choices cease, consciousness ceases. …

evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’”ti.
Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.’”
That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’”

Evaṁ vutte, timbaruko paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
When this was said, the naked ascetic Timbaruka said to the Blessed One:
When he said this, the wanderer Timbaruka said to the Buddha,

“abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe…
“Magnificent, Master Gotama!…
“Excellent, sir! Excellent! …

esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca.
I go for refuge to Master Gotama, and to the Dhamma, and to the Bhikkhu Saṅgha.
I go for refuge to Mister Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha.

Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.
From today let Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”
From this day forth, may Mister Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

Aṭṭhamaṁ.