sutta » sn » sn12 » Saṁyutta Nikāya 12.24

Aññatitthiyasutta

Followers of Other Religions

Rājagahe viharati veḷuvane.
Near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove.

Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.
Then Venerable Sāriputta robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.

Atha kho āyasmato sāriputtassa etadahosi:
Then it occurred to him,

“atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.
“It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.

Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti.
Why don’t I visit the monastery of the wanderers of other religions?”

Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodi.
Then he went to the monastery of the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. The wanderers said to him:

“Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.
“Reverend Sāriputta, there are ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. Some of them declare that suffering is made by oneself.

Santi panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.
Some of them declare that suffering is made by another.

Santāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.
Some of them declare that suffering is made by both oneself and another.

Santi panāvuso sāriputta, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.
Some of them declare that suffering arises by chance, not made by oneself or another.

Idha, panāvuso sāriputta, samaṇo gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?
What does the ascetic Gotama say about this? How does he explain it?

Kathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva samaṇassa gotamassa assāma, na ca samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?
How should we answer so as to repeat what the ascetic Gotama has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should we explain in line with his teaching, with no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”

“Paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā.
“Reverends, the Buddha said that suffering is dependently originated.

Kiṁ paṭicca?
Dependent on what?

Phassaṁ paṭicca.
Dependent on contact.

Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assa, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.
If you said this you would repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth. You would explain in line with his teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism.

Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself, that’s conditioned by contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by another, that’s also conditioned by contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself and another, that’s also conditioned by contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
In the case of those who declare that suffering arises by chance, not made by oneself or another, that’s also conditioned by contact.

Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself and another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.

Yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī”ti.
In the case of those who declare that suffering arises by chance, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.”

Assosi kho āyasmā ānando āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ imaṁ kathāsallāpaṁ.
Venerable Ānanda heard this discussion between Venerable Sāriputta and those wanderers of other religions.

Atha kho āyasmā ānando rājagahe piṇḍāya caritvā pacchābhattaṁ piṇḍapātapaṭikkanto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi.
Then Ānanda wandered for alms in Rājagaha. After the meal, on his return from almsround, he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side,

Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā ānando yāvatako āyasmato sāriputtassa tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ ahosi kathāsallāpo taṁ sabbaṁ bhagavato ārocesi.
and informed the Buddha of all they had discussed.

“Sādhu sādhu, ānanda, yathā taṁ sāriputto sammā byākaramāno byākareyya.
“Good, good, Ānanda! It’s just as Sāriputta has so rightly explained.

Paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, ānanda, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.
I have said that suffering is dependently originated.

Kiṁ paṭicca?
Dependent on what?

Phassaṁ paṭicca.
Dependent on contact.

Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyya.
Saying this you would repeat what I have said, and not misrepresent me with an untruth. You would explain in line with my teaching, and there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism.

Tatrānanda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
Consider the ascetics and brahmins who teach the efficacy of deeds. In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself, that’s conditioned by contact. …

Yepi te …pe…

yepi te …pe…

yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.
In the case of those who declare that suffering arises by chance, not made by oneself or another, that’s also conditioned by contact.

Tatrānanda, yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
In the case of those who declare that suffering is made by oneself, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact. …

Yepi te …pe…

yepi te …pe…

yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
In the case of those who declare that suffering arises by chance, not made by oneself or another, it’s impossible that they will experience that without contact.

Ekamidāhaṁ, ānanda, samayaṁ idheva rājagahe viharāmi veḷuvane kalandakanivāpe.
Ānanda, this one time I was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground.

Atha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pāvisiṁ.
Then I robed up in the morning and, taking my bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.

Tassa mayhaṁ, ānanda, etadahosi:
Then I thought:

‘atippago kho tāva rājagahe piṇḍāya carituṁ.
‘It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.

Yannūnāhaṁ yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkameyyan’ti.
Why don’t I visit the monastery of the wanderers of other religions?’

Atha khvāhaṁ, ānanda, yena aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ ārāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā tehi aññatitthiyehi paribbājakehi saddhiṁ sammodiṁ.
Then I went to the monastery of the wanderers of other religions and exchanged greetings with the wanderers there.

Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁ. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho maṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā etadavocuṁ:
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, I sat down to one side. …”

‘Santāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.
(The wanderers asked the Buddha the very same questions, and he gave the same answers.)

Santi panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā paraṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.

Santāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca dukkhaṁ paññapenti.

Santi panāvuso gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti.

Idha no āyasmā gotamo kiṁvādī kimakkhāyī?

Kathaṁ byākaramānā ca mayaṁ vuttavādino ceva āyasmato gotamassa assāma, na ca āyasmantaṁ gotamaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyāma, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyāma, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’ti?

Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, ānanda, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ:

‘paṭiccasamuppannaṁ kho, āvuso, dukkhaṁ vuttaṁ mayā.

Kiṁ paṭicca?

Phassaṁ paṭicca.

Iti vadaṁ vuttavādī ceva me assa, na ca maṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyya, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyya, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānupāto gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyāti.

Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.

Yepi te …pe…

yepi te …pe…

yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti tadapi phassapaccayā.

Tatrāvuso, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā sayaṅkataṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.

Yepi te …pe…

yepi te …pe…

yepi te samaṇabrāhmaṇā kammavādā asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ dukkhaṁ paññapenti, te vata aññatra phassā paṭisaṁvedissantīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī’”ti.

“Acchariyaṁ bhante, abbhutaṁ bhante.
“It’s incredible, sir, it’s amazing,

Yatra hi nāma ekena padena sabbo attho vutto bhavissati.
how the whole matter is stated with one phrase.

Siyā nu kho, bhante, esevattho vitthārena vuccamāno gambhīro ceva assa gambhīrāvabhāso cā”ti?
Could there be a detailed explanation of this matter that is both deep and appears deep?”

“Tena hānanda, taññevettha paṭibhātū”ti.
“Well then, Ānanda, clarify this matter yourself.”

“Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:
“Sir, suppose they were to ask me:

‘jarāmaraṇaṁ, āvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānaṁ kiṁsamudayaṁ kiṁjātikaṁ kiṁpabhavan’ti?
‘Reverend Ānanda, what is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death?’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:
I’d answer like this:

‘jarāmaraṇaṁ kho, āvuso, jātinidānaṁ jātisamudayaṁ jātijātikaṁ jātipabhavan’ti.
‘Reverends, rebirth is the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of old age and death.’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.
That’s how I’d answer such a question.

Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:
Suppose they were to ask me:

‘jāti panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidānā kiṁsamudayā kiṁjātikā kiṁpabhavā’ti?
‘What is the source of rebirth?’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:
I’d answer like this:

‘jāti kho, āvuso, bhavanidānā bhavasamudayā bhavajātikā bhavappabhavā’ti.
‘Continued existence is the source of rebirth.’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.
That’s how I’d answer such a question.

Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:
Suppose they were to ask me:

‘bhavo panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?
‘What is the source of continued existence?’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:
I’d answer like this:

‘bhavo kho, āvuso, upādānanidāno upādānasamudayo upādānajātiko upādānappabhavo’ti.
‘Grasping is the source of continued existence.’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ.
That’s how I’d answer such a question.

Sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ—
Suppose they were to ask me:

upādānaṁ panāvuso …pe…
‘What is the source of grasping?’ …

taṇhā panāvuso …pe…
craving …

vedanā panāvuso …pe…
feeling …

sace maṁ, bhante, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ:
Suppose they were to ask me:

‘phasso panāvuso ānanda, kiṁnidāno kiṁsamudayo kiṁjātiko kiṁpabhavo’ti?
‘What is the source of contact?’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ:
I’d answer like this:

‘phasso kho, āvuso, saḷāyatananidāno saḷāyatanasamudayo saḷāyatanajātiko saḷāyatanappabhavo’ti.
‘The six sense fields are the source, origin, birthplace, and inception of contact.’

‘Channaṁ tveva, āvuso, phassāyatanānaṁ asesavirāganirodhā phassanirodho;
‘When the six fields of contact fade away and cease with nothing left over, contact ceases.

phassanirodhā vedanānirodho;
When contact ceases, feeling ceases.

vedanānirodhā taṇhānirodho;
When feeling ceases, craving ceases.

taṇhānirodhā upādānanirodho;
When craving ceases, grasping ceases.

upādānanirodhā bhavanirodho;
When grasping ceases, continued existence ceases.

bhavanirodhā jātinirodho;
When continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases.

jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇaṁ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā nirujjhanti.
When rebirth ceases, old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress cease.

Evametassa kevalassa dukkhakkhandhassa nirodho hotī’ti.
That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.’

Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, bhante, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.
That’s how I’d answer such a question.”

Catutthaṁ.