sutta » sn » sn56 » Saṁyutta Nikāya 56.40

Vādatthikasutta

Looking For a Debate

“Yo hi koci, bhikkhave, bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe…
“Mendicants, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.

‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti, puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī:
An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking:

‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.

Pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe…

uttarāya cepi disāya …pe…

dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī:

‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.

Seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, silāyūpo soḷasa kukkuko.
Suppose there was a stone pillar, sixteen feet long.

Tassassu aṭṭha kukku heṭṭhā nemaṅgamā, aṭṭha kukku uparinemassa.
Eight feet were buried underground, and eight above ground.

Puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya; pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe… uttarāya cepi disāya …pe… dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya bhusā vātavuṭṭhi, neva saṅkampeyya na sampakampeyya na sampacāleyya.
Even if violent storms were to blow up out of the east, the west, the north, and the south, they couldn’t make it shake or rock or tremble.

Taṁ kissa hetu?
Why is that?

Gambhīrattā, bhikkhave, nemassa sunikhātattā silāyūpassa.
It’s because that boundary pillar is firmly embedded, with deep foundations.

Evameva kho, bhikkhave, yo hi koci bhikkhu ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti;
In the same way, take any mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.

puratthimāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.
An ascetic or brahmin might come from the east, west, north, or south wanting to debate, seeking a debate, thinking: ‘I’ll refute their doctrine!’ It’s simply impossible for them to legitimately make that mendicant shake or rock or tremble.

Pacchimāya cepi disāya …pe…

uttarāya cepi disāya …pe…

dakkhiṇāya cepi disāya āgaccheyya samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā vādatthiko vādagavesī: ‘vādamassa āropessāmī’ti, taṁ vata sahadhammena saṅkampessati vā sampakampessati vā sampacālessati vāti—netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjati.

Taṁ kissa hetu?
Why is that?

Sudiṭṭhattā, bhikkhave, catunnaṁ ariyasaccānaṁ.
It’s because they have clearly seen the four noble truths.

Katamesaṁ catunnaṁ?
What four?

Dukkhassa ariyasaccassa …pe… dukkhanirodhagāminiyā paṭipadāya ariyasaccassa.
The noble truths of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path.

Tasmātiha, bhikkhave, ‘idaṁ dukkhan’ti yogo karaṇīyo …pe… ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti yogo karaṇīyo”ti.
That’s why you should practice meditation …”

Dasamaṁ.

Sīsapāvanavaggo catuttho.

Tassuddānaṁ

Sīsapā khadiro daṇḍo,

celā sattisatena ca;

Pāṇā sūriyūpamā dvedhā,

indakhīlo ca vādinoti.